Herb Alpert was he a swing musician?

I don't really know anything about Herb Alpert as a musician. I never listened to his music. I don't believe he was a jazz musician, although you may know more about this than I do. I think he had a record company in the late 1960's and 70's. I remember John Snyder producing some nice jazz records for A&M records. Was that Herb Alpert's label? I don't recall him ever being an improvising musician.

Does classical swing upset you?

In meaning "classical swing", that sounds to me like a dance style that started in the 1920's, evolving out of the New Orleans dixieland music and culminating in and around the early Chicago society musics. Yeah... it does upset me if it is played badly. For me, there are two distinct rhythmic styles that came from the duple pulse - "military march" and "swing". I believe that all music in the 4/4 or 2/4 pulse evolved out of these two basic types of rhythmic pulse. This includes all of the most contemporary types of music we hear today which came from that most recent ancient past, the early 20th century. You can hear the military march pulse saturated into the current trends of American pop music - that strong dominant backbeat and metronomic movement. Although most of the public and especially the youngsters believe this music to be revolutionary and "hip", they are completely fooled and under the control of the status quo, which is exactly where the controllers want them to be. In this brainwashed state, the "people" are duped into commercialism and market and become out of control consumers buying and doing everything the establishment tells them to do. The consequence: no individualism and television trapped vegetables who have lost their own center and curiousness about themselves and the universe. Is that hip? I think not. Now we come to the other type of rhythmic pulse evolving into and out of early American dance styles: swing. Swing evolved as a counter-reaction to the military martial style. It rounded off the edges and made the circle the main and strongest geometric form. This was now in balance with nature; nature being squiggly and spiral. The human body, which is the highest physical evolution on the planet is also squiggly and quirky, just like the universe. No wonder it reacts positively and in balance with the swing pulse. When music is swinging in any of it's forms and evolution, the body automatically reacts and moves. IT is graceful and hip. Jazz music came from the swing and to this day evolves even higher which gives it its high creative quality. This music is not afraid to change and must do so because the ball (circle) keeps rolling. Isn't it amazing how the wheel is still the most amazing discovery ever made. Without the wheel and roundness everything would stop and then we are doomed for sure. This is what swing means to me - a pendullum which never stops moving through the grace of gravity and whose outcome (if there is any) is spiraling circles creating evolution and time through the vastness of space. If it's great music, it swings. If it's not, it debilitates and whithers away into de-composition. We can only hope that the world will keep spinning (swingin').

Does taking apart instruments bring expressive advantages?

 It brings more expressive capabilities in the hands of a certain type of musician. I wouldn't classify it as an advantage; just a tool for expanding sound possibilities to an already established vocabulary. This is an extremely delicate subject and the decision to attempt this endeavor has to be without doubt, while at the same time being totally immersed in the moment with a mind set of complete connectedness and abandonment to the improvisation. In this condition the surprise elements will be there along with the sound organization that is already established. With these elements existing, the outcome could be very surreal. As far as my own personal decision to do this with my trumpet, it came about during the years 1975 - 1980 when I was doing a lot of duo improvisations, especially with drummer/percussionists. Through the years, I've always seemed to be associated with drummers. Because of the nature of the instruments they played, (many had exotic drums and percussion from all over the world), the sounds that were created were at times very otherworldly and unusually strange sounding... very exciting indeed. I just happened to start experimenting with my trumpet, preparing it and removing the valve slide crooks, and discovering all different kinds of exotic sounds to produce while blowing on the instrument or on the slide crooks themselves. At times it would even sound like instruments from different world cultures and very aboriginal. This would blend nicely with what the percussionists were playing and the music would take on other characteristics which added to the already established orchestral sounds that the instruments were made for in the first place. Adding to my palette of colors of possibilities excited me and I decided to incorporate these elements to my already existing jazz vocabulary. But as I said earlier, you have to be commited to it and believe in it to make it work, and also without being trite or pretentious. It's a whole study in itself and takes many years of experimentation and editing to make sure that music is the ultimate outcome. The placement of sounds is what creates music and preparing your instrument for sound expansion has to be a dedicated process with the no fear aspect of adventure for astral-sound traveling around the universe. Let's keep letting the music take us to where "angels fear to tread". Thank you John Cage and all of the masters for showing us unlimited possibilities.

What do you think of Bubber Miley?

Bubber Miley for me is a mysterious legend. His pioneering use of the plunger mute would characterize the early efforts of brass players discovering ways in which the timbre of the instrument could be altered by inserting different shaped devises into the bell of it thus producing a wide variety of tonal shifting and color enhancement to add to the player's arsenal of vocabularistic inquiry and expression. The sink plunger (a plumber's tool) would fit perfectly over the trumpet bell. The toilet bowl plunger would fit perfectly over the trombonist's bell. These discoveries came about during the 1920's and 30's. In fact, all of the original mutes were either household materials or even clothing. Simple inventions and contraptions for experimentation and color changes in order to make large (17 piece) jazz bands to try to emulate orchestral colors. The muted brass gave arrangers many choices and instrumental combinations to choose from. Then the manufacturers took this up and started making commercial mutes made from hard cardboard and metal. But of course there was nothing like those personal inventions that the early brassmen used. They still sound the greatest and very personal to each mute stylist. The plunger and the derby mutes were extra special, especially in the hands of Bubber Miley and/or "Tricky" Sam Nanton. The wah-wah effects and growl capabilities brought that "talking" and singing possibility to the foreground and Bubber was the granddaddy of it all. Too bad the recordings are scarce and not too clear, but we can hear the blues and power of it and just imagine what it must have been like to experience that LIVE! The influence that those guys had on us through the lineage of music history right up to and beyond even electric guitarists ala Jimi Hendrix and more....... I take my "derby" off to Bubber and Tricky. We are all in a better place because of it.

Which are the jazz blowers you like most and why

I like the jazzers who utilize time movement through space. What I mean by this is: The incorporation of geometric forms in space and time. Or what we would call the remembrance of spiral motion of a common denominator which is innate in the mathematics of the subconscious. This being the case, I'm inclined to say that this would give me some analysis of why I prefer to keep my list of favorite jazz musicians at a minimum. The players that I dig the most would cover the whole history of the music. Each player for me has to encompass a large vocabulary with a knowledge of tradition and being able to transform all of this into their own music, which will be open-ended for continuance in a future time and have some visionary aspects to it. All of this has to be realized spontaneously and without thought when the improvisational elements have to be utilized. Joy and exuberance should not be overlooked! So here is a partial list of some of my favorites and some short descriptions of why: (asterisk indicates genius and/or innovator) trumpet: 1) * Louis Armstrong - pioneer; joyful & exuberant; trumpet master; perfect time. 2) Rex Stewart - blues; plunger master; experimenter. 3) Cootie Williams - jungle plungerist; voice-like. 4) * Dizzy Gillespie - "practice practice practice"; time movement through space; made me laugh with joy; acrobatics. 5) * Miles Davis - deepness; all traditions and future perspectives; lyrical; time movement; always curious; deceptive. 6) * Clifford Brown - speed and articulation; evenness of tone and time; trumpetistic. 7) Donald Byrd - lyricism and finger-poppin'. 8) Clark Terry - solidness; plunger and mutes; fun. 9) Booker Little - curiousness; pathos; deep. 10) Lee Morgan - joyful; fun and tickling; articulatory. 11) * Freddie Hubbard - spiral motion; "practice!"; time movement; all traditions and future perspectives; timbre; acrobatics. 12) * Don Ellis - traditional & modern; experimentation; fun; accell. & decell. through space/time. 13) Thad Jones - angular; all traditions; lyric. 14) * Don Cherry - abstract lyricism; curiousness; spacial; worldly. 15) Lester Bowie - joyful; experiment with sound; time movement in space; toneful. 16) Paul Smoker - power; traditional with experimentation; mathmatical.

Dave Douglas told me once that the trumpet player that most influenced him was Herb Robertson. Any comments?

It was during the late 70's through the 80's that I was playing around NYC frequently. The NYC jazz clubs and some nice concert halls were featuring (along with the regular jazz) some of the more cutting edge stuff at that time. There wasn't much of an influx of musicians coming into NY at that time. It was more specialized and a nice group of us could work pretty regularly, bouncing around to the different venues around Manhattan, especially below midtown which became the infamous title "downtown", even though we were from all around the NY area. Then a lot of talented musicians started migrating to that area and that's where I met a lot of the younger musicians, some of them telling me that this new movement that I was involved with through recordings and European tours, had a big influence on them to move closer to where the action was happening. Dave Douglas was part of this group coming in. Now... with all of this abundance of musicians and the jazz clubs closing and changing their policies, basically stopping all new creative music performance at their clubs, rehearsal bands started forming so that we could all at least play together to keep the music vital. Another changing factor which had an influence on the scene was the opening of the Knitting Factory in 1987. I believe that this was a main factor for some of the other jazz clubs to stop their new music policy. Some of them said that since the Knitting Factory opened and was featuring new improvised music as their main policy, they (the other jazz clubs) stopped theirs. For me this was detrimental and I saw a future down the line of musicians playing at the Knitting Factory for almost nothing. Why should the established jazz clubs in NY hire these musicians who play for free at the Knitting factory??!! But the "Knit" had positive influences also... like bringing us all together and giving strength in numbers. So there's that yin & yang aspect again. Musicians used to come up to me and tell me how much I influenced them from my records and recordings that I was doing with Mark Helias and Tim Berne. I never knew that my music was having an influence on a younger generation coming in from all over America! It was great to know that there were people out there listening and keeping me informed about this. Dave always would tell me about how much he had checked me out and how great it was to be finally playing with me in some of the rehearsal bands that we were doing together. I was really happy when told me about these things and I'm proud to be part of his history. Now of course NY is over-saturated with musicians and basically no place to play except for Tonic (if you can get a gig there), maybe the Knit (if you fit their policy), and some small non-paying joints. I refuse to play for nothing and if I perform my music, I make sure that the musicians are paid at least halfway decently usually coming out of the leader's pocket. I'm really glad that I was there in the beginnings of this movement. It has to be really difficult these days for the younger musicians to survive solely on music and pay such exorbitant rents. It's great to know that a lot of the people I know are doing it. But it is a long incubation process and dedication with much patience and perseverance. It can be done. Just hang in there, baby!

Although you had a Bud Powell repertoire, your sidemen have always been white. Is this a consequence of you working in Europe?

Music for me is a Universal language that transcends cultures and idioms. Jazz was the way for me to realize that music and art incorporates the whole human emotional experience. As we enter into the new millennium we forget categories and raise to a new level of consciousness. These were the ideas that were coming to me when I was younger and discovered jazz. The first experience in hearing this music was when I was 12 years old. It was the artist Miles Davis at that time who captured my attention and that's when I said to myself that jazz was the ultimate expression of the trumpet. So I saturated myself with the music from then on out. I didn't care about who was playing it. For me, if it was great music I absorbed it and that included all "types" of it. I believe that there are really only two types of music anyway: Good and Bad. I didn't even realize (when I was collecting all of the greatest jazz LPs) the appearance or persuasion of the musicians. One of my relatives pointed this out to me when I was a teen-ager. She was checking out my large record collection and informed me about that. I was shocked. I couldn't believe that there were and still are some people who judge music purely on the appearance of it and not on the transcending-via-aural aspects of it. You see, when I was 14 years old and began playing blues and jazz, I was curious about how and why I could do this. As I became older, the music led me to psychology and especially the works of Carl Gustav Jung. His work on the Collective Unconscious gave me insights into the muse and some concrete reasons for how we tap that source, all the way back to the ancient and archaic origins of the human species. The whole human race has it's beginning in the fertile reaches of the African Plains and Serrengeti. Aha! ... so this is where it's coming from: the unconscious of all the different cultures throughout history coming through us in our dreams and artistic expression. That was how I was tapping into this with music. So from then on I started studying many of the sciences and philosophies of the world relating to these ideas. Jazz was the catalyst of my search for meaning and it brought me to a realization of world culture without prejudice. This is my experience as a jazz musician. And I try to find kindred spirits in my travels who also dwell on these ideas. That is why when I play music, it is music and only the music that dictates what I should do. I don't have the time to think about petty details. It's hard enough to survive playing the music I want to explore. Having the privilege to perform in Europe has helped me to survive and continue in this process. But my heart and soul is the exploration. If the musicians can improvise their asses off and come from a long history of music appreciation, dance and exploration, I'm on their side.

What did you learn with the ‘Liberation Music Orchestra’?

Well... I had to learn the new charts along with all of the other musicians in that band. It was the summer of 1987 and Charlie had a five week European tour happening. He wanted an African theme so he hired Carla Bley to do the arrangements of African folk music during the Aparteid period. In was great to add my original approach to the ensemble along with all of the other original players. That particular group consisted of: Stanton Davis and myself on trumpet and Fluegelhorn, Sharon Freeman on horn, Craig Harris - trombone, Bob Stewart on tuba, Ken McIntyre - alto, Joe Lovano and Dewey Redman - tenors, Mick Goodrick - guitar, Geri Allen on piano, Charlie on bass and Paul Motian playing drums. As you can see, a nice diverse group of characters. There was plenty of solo space for all of the players and we all had our individual places to shine. I had to leave the band soon after the tour to do another tour and unfortunately couldn't make the recording. Charlie was very nice and accomodating and it was a great thrill for me to be in his orchestra at that time. But basically all of my JMT recordings were coming out at that time and I was very busy in keeping up with my own material and career advancement. Charlie Haden's Liberation Music Orchestra was a diversion from my stuff and I did it as a relief from my music and to get a chance to play with another Master. Thanks for asking!

What did you study at Berklee College of Music?

I entered Berklee in 1969 right after high school. When I was 12 years old I already knew that I wanted to be a trumpet player. My destiny was set. From that moment on through my teenage years I played jazz and formed jam sessions every chance I got. If there were no players around I would saturate myself with listening to my jazz collection. This was the reason for me to go to Berklee. I knew that I had to go there to get a thorough education in the music at all levels. In 1969 until 1973 when I left, there was great music up there. All the different styles of jazz was represented and I could participate in loads of ensembles and improvisational workshops, learning everything about the trumpet and repertoire along with advanced ear training courses and arranging techniques. When I enrolled I was immediately placed into 5th semester because of the abilities I had already incorporated into my playing during my adolescent and teenage years. This gave me a great advantage to progress to higher learning levels immediately and I was placed in the top notch ensembles along with the upper class players which gave me the quickened development in a short period of time by being challenged immediately. During my late teens and into the first years at Berklee, I had developed super high chops and was called upon to play lead trumpet in many of the big band ensembles. It was for this reason that I would focus my improvisational skills in the smaller ensembles. These were mainly 10 piece groups with a standard instrumentation of: 2 trumpets, 1 trombone and 3 saxophones (alto, tenor and baritone along with all of the woodwind doubles), guitar, piano, bass and drums. There was a gigantic library at Berklee for this instrumentation (mainly because of the composition and arranging majors) and we (the instrumental performance majors) were called upon to play this material. This is where I could really develop my improvisational abilities. The large emsembles played all of the Duke Ellington, Stan Kenton, Count Basie, you name it, material (along with original compositions) and the small ensembles did mainly original compositions with plenty of room for improvisation along with interpretation and ensemble development. Many of my small ensembles and of course the quartets and quintets were led by Charlie Mariano, who would bring in some very original and challenging stuff every so often. It was during this time that I started to realize that I was developing an original approach on the horn and it was all coming together in a new and special way. It was when I left Berklee and hit the road and eventually ending up in New York City that I knew I had some new ideas for the expansion of the trumpet that had to be documented. Yes, Berklee was there at the right time for all this to start incubating for me and I'll always remember that part of my life so many years ago. I really don't believe that Berklee today offers such a diverse and concentrated approach as it did way back then in the context of nurturing original players and composers for a career in creative music. That was a different time altogether.

Born in 1951 and first name given Clarence! Why are you known nowadays as Herb?!

I have been known as "Herb" since 1963 when I was given it as a nickname because my classmates didn't like the name Clarence and made fun of it. I was already playing the trumpet for 2 years and they associated it with some top forty hits that Herb Alpert had on the radio. Even though at that time I was listening to jazz and would have preferred "Miles" or "Lips", you have to remember that regular school kids never listened to Miles or jazz, period. Especially at 12 years old! Alpert had hits on the radio and the kids only knew that, so they just made a trumpet connection. I accepted the name because finally my name wasn't ridiculed any more. That's the only reason why I have that name to this day. I never thought about it too much after that. It just stuck, that's all.